Is it wrong for a Christian to be rich? This thought-provoking question drives our conversation in this episode as we, Catherine Van Der Laan and Erica Fluckus, explore the two opposing opinions held within the church.
We discuss how God talks about money in the Bible and share the inspiring story of one of Catherine's multimillionaire clients who uses his wealth to serve God and give Him glory.
Join us as we examine the biblical figure of Abraham, a wealthy Christian, and how his example relates to this question.
In our exploration, we also delve into Jesus' interaction with the Samaritan woman at the well and the importance of using money to serve the Lord. We consider the temptations of the devil, the significance of obedience, and how our hearts should be focused on God rather than money.
Listen in as we reflect on the armor that God has given us to resist temptation and protect us from the devil's schemes in this insightful conversation on the relationship between Christianity and wealth.
Book a free coaching session: https://www.saverstreet.com/free-consultation
saverstreet.com
catherine.vanderlaan@saverstreet.com
FB: @SaverStreet
IG: @saver.street
Is it wrong for a Christian to be rich? This thought-provoking question drives our conversation in this episode as we, Catherine Van Der Laan and Erica Fluckus, explore the two opposing opinions held within the church.
We discuss how God talks about money in the Bible and share the inspiring story of one of Catherine's multimillionaire clients who uses his wealth to serve God and give Him glory.
Join us as we examine the biblical figure of Abraham, a wealthy Christian, and how his example relates to this question.
In our exploration, we also delve into Jesus' interaction with the Samaritan woman at the well and the importance of using money to serve the Lord. We consider the temptations of the devil, the significance of obedience, and how our hearts should be focused on God rather than money.
Listen in as we reflect on the armor that God has given us to resist temptation and protect us from the devil's schemes in this insightful conversation on the relationship between Christianity and wealth.
Book a free coaching session: https://www.saverstreet.com/free-consultation
saverstreet.com
catherine.vanderlaan@saverstreet.com
FB: @SaverStreet
IG: @saver.street
It comes down to what you want that money for, what you want those riches for, because if you want it just for yourself, i hope God doesn't give it to you. But if you want those riches and you want that wealth to serve God, to do the good works that God has put in front of you, i hope He gives it to you. I really do. Welcome to the Money Ministers podcast. My name is Catherine Vanderlaan.
Speaker 2:And I'm Erica Flukis. We're the Money.
Speaker 1:Ministers, and we're here to help you understand what God says about managing money.
Speaker 2:It's a tricky topic, but God says a lot about money in the Bible. Let's dive in.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Money Ministers. My name is Catherine Vanderlaan And I'm Erica.
Speaker 2:Flukis.
Speaker 1:It is so nice to be here with you all today. Today we are discussing is it wrong for a Christian to be rich? I hear this all the time. Erica, have you thought about this at all?
Speaker 2:I have. I have. Is it wrong for a Christian to be? There's two opinions to this that I've heard in the church. I think we're going to be able to tackle it very easily on today's show.
Speaker 1:Now let's dive right in. This is a huge discussion in the Christian church, and I'll tell you what pastors really don't like talking about money at least the pastors that I know And so they don't really discuss this from the pulpit. So we're going to discuss it here, because I like hard topics, don't you?
Speaker 2:And if we don't discuss it, who will understand? How will people, how will us, as the body of Christ, understand the answers to this question based on the Word of God?
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly, and this is something that I see all the time. as a Christian money coach, financial coach, i work with this belief, or the negative of this. I work with people all the time who believe that God thinks it's wrong. I'm here for a Christian to be rich And I'm here to tell you I think you're going to agree on this one That's incorrect. That is incorrect.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely Very incorrect.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you and I'm not going to finish the story until a little bit later, because I love a whole story I have a client right now and have her a little bit who is a multimillionaire. I know Eric asked me earlier as we were writing the notes for this Let's see your client, what does he even need you for? And I'll tell you what. It's pretty fun. He doesn't need me, but it's really fun for the both of us to look at his income, to look at his budget, to look at everything that is coming in and help him prioritize where it all goes, to prioritize how much he wants to give and what he ends up living on himself. So that's where I come in. It's more of a godly sounding board between how he's living his life, how he's prioritizing his time, prioritizing his spending on himself and his spending his giving.
Speaker 1:This multimillionaire is not an evil person. He really is not an evil person. His heart is fully, fully devoted to God. I will tell you that right now, his wife was very sick for a long time with a debilitating illness, and he stayed with her the whole time. She died within the last year and he was left managing all of their estate by himself, which is kind of where I came in, which was I came in a little bit before she died to help him manage his estate so that he was making godly decisions.
Speaker 1:It is very hard to make godly decisions about the blessings that God has given you by yourself. Can you even imagine And I'll get to what his decisions were after we get into this topic, because I think a lot of people think that it's wrong for a Christian to be rich, that you are unholy, that you are not godly if you're rich, that you cannot possibly be like God, because Jesus wasn't a rich person, because God told a bunch of people that they should stop loving their wealth and relying on their wealth, and so it cannot possibly be right for a Christian to be rich. What do you think about that, erica?
Speaker 2:Well, i just think that's contrary to who we are as believers in Jesus Christ, because our God is a God of more. He's a big God, right? I mean Scripture tells us that he owns the cattle, all the cattle, on a thousand hills. So if we are joint heirs of Christ and heirs of God, that means that we are his children. Then I don't believe he wants his children to be poor and living in lack and in poverty. And so is it wrong for a Christian to be rich? Absolutely not. We talked about this before in a previous episode. But it just all goes back to your heart in how you're using the riches. Because, hey, if you can use the riches to give God glory, to serve and I know we're going to talk more about this, but it's all about your intention in your heart. That's what it's based upon.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about Abraham for a moment. He's my favorite person to talk about when it comes to this question. You know, is it wrong for a Christian to be rich? Because Abraham was obscenely wealthy. Obscenely wealthy, right? Everyone knew him, and when he came in, people called him a king or a prince, or he owned the cattle on a thousand hills. I mean Abraham, not really, not literally, i mean for not, i'm trying not to compare him to God. Sorry, that was a little sacrilegious, but he was horribly wealthy.
Speaker 1:You know what God asked him to do. God asked him to sacrifice his only son. God didn't ask him to sell everything and give it to the poor, which we're going to talk about in a moment. God asked him to sacrifice his son, and why is that? Because his son, isaac, the one he had waited a hundred years to have, became the most important thing in his life. That's why, and so God was saying I want your whole heart, your whole heart, not everything except for what you're giving to Isaac. I want all of it. And so he asked for this really weird out of character thing. He said hey, go sacrifice your son, just you and him, on this mountain, basically to prove that you are serving me. And Abraham said, yeah, okay, i'll do it. And so he went and he set it up and he bound his son, isaac, and he raised the knife and he started lowering it and God stopped him with an angel. And so, okay, okay, okay, you've proven it. You were actually going to do it. You're going to kill your son. You were going to devote your entire life to me. Because you know my power, you know my strength, you know that I could raise the dead, you know that I love you, you know that I will provide for you. And that's where you know, that's where Yahweh of provision came from.
Speaker 1:What it was? Jehovah Jairah, something like that. You know the God who actually? I think that was Hagar who did that. I should not be misquoting scripture. I think I think Hagar called him Jehovah Jairah, which I'm mispronouncing, sorry, everybody who speaks Hebrew. I love to think about Abraham in relation to that rich young ruler. Because Abraham was a rich old ruler And God said sacrifice your son. Because he knew that Abraham would sacrifice all that he had for God. And Jesus told the rich young ruler sell everything he had and give to the poor. And why is that? Because God wanted his whole heart. God thinks it's okay for you to be rich, as long as your entire heart is devoted to him.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so anyway, all right. I could go on and on, but this is about both of us here in this podcast together. Let me read off some objections, erica, and see how you tackle them. I'm going to put you on the spot here. Objection number one, that I hear a lot You like it's more holy to be poor. What do you think?
Speaker 2:I feel like it's more holy to be poor. I've heard people maybe not say that exact statement, but think that and live that way. Yeah, i think sometimes Christians are speaking that, thinking that, oh yeah, this is the holy thing to say, it's churchy or whatever. But in reality, maybe it's more of a it's based on a personal traumatic experience that they had. We don't really know what that looks like, because everybody has gone through different things, but yeah, i have heard that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's not make light of that, because I do think that sometimes people have been taken advantage of by rich people who claim to be Christians And I use those words on purpose claim to be Christians, because there are a lot of people. I live in Southern California right now. I used to live in Georgia. I have been on mission trips to Tennessee. There are a lot of people you know. I've lived in Florida and the Northeast and Germany and, like all over the place, there are a lot of people who claim to be Christian and don't act like it. So it comes down to this hurt thing. You can go all over the world.
Speaker 1:I've been to Nicaragua. I wish I had been to somewhere in Africa. I almost went to Uganda at one point, yeah. But when I was in Nicaragua we went to a very, very poor community And I'll tell you that church was the richest church I had ever been in. Now, was it clean? No, did it have windows? No, absolutely not. Was the roof leaking? Yeah, definitely was. But it was the richest church I'd ever been in because the amount of joy and glory that people were giving God, the amount of praise and worship that I saw coming out of their lips and emanating from their faces was incredible. They gave their whole lives and their whole hearts to God, and it was hard. I think that might be why people think it's more holy to be poor. It's easier to trust God for your provision when you don't have very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's really hard to trust God for your future when you can look in your bank account, say, or your investment account, say you know what? I have a few million dollars in here and I'm going to be fine. I don't really need God today.
Speaker 2:Mmm, it's not a good place to be.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No. So it comes down to the state of your heart and how much you're trusting in God. It comes down to what you want that money for, what you want those riches for, because if you want it just for yourself, i hope God doesn't give it to you. But if you want those riches and you want that wealth to serve God, to do the good works that God has put in front of you, i hope He gives it to you. I really do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just. It goes back to what do you want? What's the vision that God has placed in your heart? right, scripture talks about if you delight yourself in the Lord, he'll give you the desires of your heart. Well, that's not necessarily, oh, he's going to give you whatever you want, but He's going to place certain desires in you that is in aligned with His plan for your life. I'll just share a little bit real quick.
Speaker 2:One of my goals is to offer housing for people coming out of prison. A lot of them don't have homes to go back to or they've been rejected by their families, friends, and so I know that's going to take money, right To have care homes and to actually create a program for them, a discipleship program, housing and entrepreneurship where they can learn different skills. And so when God gives you a vision and you have it written down and you've kind of done some research on, okay, what do I need? How much do I need to make this happen, then He knows that you're serious and that's when He'll bless you. But, more importantly, he knows why you're needing the money And He wants to bless His people as well. But, like you said, there's what's the purpose? He wants to bless us too.
Speaker 2:I believe that, but it has to be bigger than just you, you know, how is this really going to help advance the kingdom of God on earth and serve and help other people? So that's what it boils down to.
Speaker 1:I fully, fully, fully agree. I mean you can look at a bunch of different scriptures like, let's say, proverbs 8, 18, with me are riches and honor, and during wealth and prosperity. Or Proverbs 10, 22, the blessing of the Lord makes rich and He adds no sorrow with it. Or Proverbs 22, 4, for the reward, the reward for humility and fear of the Lord is riches and honor and life. I mean there are, there are a ton of them, and if you want more, just let us know. We do have that biblical money principles for Christians. You can see all of the, the verses categorized according to Roppek. If you're looking at all of those and you're thinking, okay, okay, god's going to make me rich, he wants me to have enduring wealth and prosperity. God wants me to be, to be rich, you haven't checked your heart and you're. You are looking at that riches and saying I want to be like Elon Musk, i want to live wherever I want. I want to own 10 houses in Hollywood, i want to have a private jet like the Kardashians. I want to, i want, i want, i want, instead of I'll give, i'll give, i'll give, i'll see God's, god's purpose, i'll see God's plan and and I want to be part of that. Yes, so if it's about you, then it is. It's better if you were poor, but if it is about God, well, you are in line with God's heart and God will give you those good gifts. But, but beyond that, it reminds me of Jesus at the well. So do you remember? do you remember and I think it's in all of the gospels, it might be one of the only stories in all four gospels Jesus at the well with the Samaritan woman, and he's, he's talking to her. And and this was like breaking all stereotypes, right, breaking, breaking, breaking just kind of things The Jews were racist against Samaritans. I mean, most call it like it is right. And so they, the Jews, yeah, they didn't talk to Samaritans. And here he is talking to a Samaritan. Men did not talk to women and actually rabbis at the time didn't even acknowledge women, they wouldn't even say hello to them in the marketplace. And here he is, a rabbi, rabbi of all rabbis, right, jesus talking to a Samaritan woman in the middle of the day. Right, and he he's just fully. And also, not to mention her reputation She was like the sinner of all sinners. She had left five husbands and was living with a man who was not her husband. She was an adulteress.
Speaker 1:When you hear a God is Jesus, i'm sorry. Sometimes they say God, jesus is, is God. But here Jesus is saying Hey, i am happy to talk to sinners because I'm here to call sinners to repentance. He's talking to the Samaritan woman and saying would you get me some water? She says, really, you're talking to me, you, you're asking me for water. And he and he says if you knew who was asking you for water, you would ask me for water And I would give you everlasting water that that turns into a spring, so you would never have to drink water again. And of course, she's thinking it super literally, right? Oh, my goodness, if I could get that, then I would never have to draw this water again, i would never have to go to the well, i wouldn't be so humiliated all day, i could just hide, i wouldn't have to go out and be around people. Can you imagine? right? She's thinking about it really literally.
Speaker 1:Here's my point. We are reading a bunch of these scriptures as if the riches that God wants to bless us with are literal, and sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. Sometimes they're riches now, so that we can do God's will here on Earth, and sometimes he has more work to do on our hearts, and the riches that we have are stored up for us in Heaven. Where your treasure is, there your heart is also, and so in the last episode, we talked about planning and planning to give. We talked about stewarding God's wealth. Well, we talked about how God gives good gifts to those who love him and serve him according to his purposes. Again, i have no idea where that scripture is, but I know it's there. I think it is not wrong for a Christian to be rich. I think it is wrong when a Christian is not serving God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i agree. Yeah, because money can come to you, but are you willing to serve God with the money? And even if you didn't have the money, are you still going to be content and serve God? Yeah, it goes back to the heart, i think money is really. You know, this keeps coming up, but it's true. Like you said, where your heart is, there also is your treasure, and it's all a matter of what's really in your heart. What do you really desire deep down? And it's going to come out Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Eric, are you going to sell everything you have and give it to the poor?
Speaker 2:Sell everything I have and give it to the poor. If that's what God tells me to do, is it important to be obedient? I think in scripture, when he was telling the rich young ruler to do that, i think he was really trying to make a point to see okay, are you really going to give away everything? How much do you really value everything versus knowing who I am? So I'm not for sure. God would necessarily say it would speak to us and say oh yeah, sell everything, but it's all about your heart. What are you willing to sacrifice for me?
Speaker 1:That's right. God doesn't need your sacrifices, but he wants is your heart. Yes, yeah, and not to turn this into something completely different. If you're listening to this in your Christian, i don't want you to forget that there is a lot of evil in this world, that there are. I mean, satan is the prince of the world and he tempts people with riches, he tempts people with a lot of things and he is out there and his devils, his demons, are out there tempting you. They don't rest night and day, but God is our protector and our shield. God has given us armor, the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the shield of faith, the sword of the spirit, the helmet of salvation, all of those. I think I forgot the boots, readiness and faith, or something We're ready to share the gospel Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I missed part of it a little bit, guys, but that gave us all of this armor so that we don't have to be afraid of this devil, we don't have to be afraid of temptation And yeah, he's working night and day to tempt us Totally get it Definitely is happening. We can resist that through the strength that God provides through Jesus in us, the hope of salvation, through the Holy Spirit that protects us. If you're repelling or repelled when confronted with a Christian who has some material wealth, if you think that they are evil, check your heart, because it could be that you have been tempted, that you believe a lie that Satan has told you And that lie is meant to destroy the church, to tear us all apart, to make it so that we aren't serving God because we're so focused on telling other people what to do.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, i know. Wow, that went into a whole different direction, didn't it?
Speaker 2:It was good, though It was really good.
Speaker 1:Let's end this with some prayer. Let's end this episode with some prayer, because prayerfully considering what God wants for you in your life is really what all of this is about. We can't judge other people. Leave that to God. So, praying for God to come to you and to give you direction and to show you what you need to work on. Every time God is asked to somebody to give up something that they love, it is because he's trying to turn their heart. So, erika, would you mind praying for us? You can say no.
Speaker 2:I'll pray, dear Heavenly Father. We just thank you, lord, for this time to get to learn more about your word and what you say about money. Can a Christian be rich? Is it wrong for a Christian to be rich? We know through your word that it's not wrong, but it is wrong to use the riches in a way that's not pleasing to you and that is prideful and self-centered. And so, lord, i just pray, god, that you would give each of us a vision and help us to know exactly why you'd want us to be rich individually. We know that you have given each of us gifts, lord, not to hoard or just to make a living on or with, but in order for us to implement in the earth, for us to serve others, love others and be the light in this dark world.
Speaker 2:And so, lord, i just pray right now that anyone who believes that having riches as a Christian Lord, that you would just minister to their heart, lord, i pray, lord, that you would lead us to dive deeper into your word for ourselves and understand your truth. I thank you, lord, that your word is true, and I thank you for the Holy Spirit that will teach us and lead us into all truth. And so we just thank you for that gift, lord, and so we just thank you, lord, that we are in your will and we are using the money, even that we have now, even if it's not riches. I pray that we are found faithful with what you've given us, that we are found as planners, people who are wise stewards of our money, knowing that we really don't own any of it, that it's yours. And so, lord, i just pray, lord, that you would give us the strategy and the wisdom to be able to plan the way we need to plan, and that we can plan our futures, but also we can be the generous givers that you want us to be, so that we can accumulate wealth.
Speaker 2:Because your word does tell us as well that a good man or woman leaves an inheritance for his children's children. And so, lord, we know, father, god, that this is about legacy as well, This is about generational blessings. And so, father, help us, lord, to be one who will leave an inheritance. We will be one who is doing good works with the money that you have given us, and so we thank you, lord, for it now, and we love you, lord, and I pray, father, god, that everything we do, oh God, will be pleasing to your sight. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.
Speaker 1:Amen. Do you all want to know what? thank you, erica. Do you all want to know what happened to that client that I have and how?
Speaker 2:he uses this as well, of course we do, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that client of mine who's a multimillionaire, so he has a pension and then he also has millions of dollars in these retirement accounts. And I'll tell you what it's so fun working with him, because what I get to do is help him organize his time and what he's devoted his time to, which has all been serving and volunteering since he's retired And before he retired I worked with him. Before he retired he was serving and raising up leaders and followers of Jesus Christ in his workplace, and after he retired he was all volunteering through his church. I mean manning huge outreach programs. And you guys want to know what he does with his money. He lives off his pension and he gives all of the rest of it away. All of it, yeah, it is, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:And so he and I have gone through his different charities. he and I have gone through and made sure that they are what God is asking him to give. You know who he's asking him to give to. We have just, we've talked through as a sounding board and prayerfully considered and prayed together about where his wealth is going and how it's being spent to glorify the kingdom of God in the right time, the right place It is. It is so fun. It is so fun.
Speaker 1:And I don't do any of the investment part. It's mostly making sure that his bases are covered. He's not forgetting anything and he is doing it all in line with Jesus Christ, his Savior, anyway. So that's what he does, that's what he does with his wealth, and I could not tell you that I mean, he is 100% serving God in his life and doing it faithfully and with integrity and with purity of heart. And that is hard to do. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. But I'll tell you what I know that I will see him in paradise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. It has to be a great feeling for you as a money coach, you know, just to be able to help someone, say accountable, and guide them. You know, that's awesome. I think that that's where we should be, where we don't need money when we get to that age, when we get to retirement or even older. You know, so many people in these days are unfortunately struggling and, yeah, i think it's awesome that your client is in that position. That's a blessing to be able to give so much. Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:It certainly is, and it's from the frugality of his late wife, it is from him being accountable until the very end. And even now, and it's really I mean, we need each other. As Christians, we need each other. We can't do this on our own. We have to do it with God, we have to do it with each other, and so that's, that's what we're doing. It's really fun, and so I know, through personal experience and through reading the Bible and through knowing God, it's really it's. It's okay for a Christian to be rich, as long as yes.
Speaker 2:bottom line Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right guys. There's been amazing here today. Yes, i love this discussion with you, erica.
Speaker 2:I love it with being with you, catherine. Thank you so much. I learned so much. Really. I'm not an expert, i'm not a money expert, but I think I know the Bible a little bit, so this this turns into a really great conversation Awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. It is so much fun And you are I would say you're a Bible expert, definitely, and I think you know more about money than you let on, especially through some of our preparation times. So this, this has been great And see you. See you again next time.
Speaker 2:Yes, we'll see you next time. Have a good one, bye, bye.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Money Minister podcast. I'm glad you're here. If you enjoyed this episode, please write our podcast on iTunes or whatever you're using to listen. I'm at SaverageStreetcom will help you find what you need in your journey to financial independence. I'll see you in the next episode. you.